Jennifer Yoffy 0:06

Welcome to Perfect Bound. I'm Jennifer Yoffy, the founder and publisher of Yoffy press in Atlanta, Georgia. This is a podcast where we talk to artists about their journey, how they got where they are, what right and wrong turns they made along the way, and where they're heading next.

You guys, having Cig Harvey on the podcast was such a treat. Cig is an artist whose practice seeks to find the magical and everyday life rich and implied narrative. Harvey's work is deeply rooted in the natural environment and offers explorations of belonging and familial relationships. She is the author of three sold-out books, You Look at Me Like an Emergency, Gardening at Night, and You an Orchestra, You a Bomb. And she has another soon-to-be-released monograph, Blue Violet. Her photographs and artists books have been widely exhibited and remain in the permanent collections of major museums and private and public collections. She's represented by galleries in New York, London, Boston, Atlanta, Maine, Rome, Santa Fe, and Los Angeles. Welcome Cig Harvey to the Perfect Bound podcast.

Hello!

Cig Harvey 1:21
I'm excited to be here to talk with you.

Jennifer Yoffy 1:23
I'm excited that you're on too. It's good to see you.

Cig Harvey 1:27
It's good to see you, too.

Jennifer Yoffy 1:28
It's been a minute.

Cig Harvey 1:30
It has, how are you holding up?

Jennifer Yoffy 1:32
Good, good. I feel like I am really busy and also really bored.

Cig Harvey 1:38
Ah, interesting. That's it. That's an unusual combination. That sounds like a conundrum. To me.

Jennifer Yoffy 1:45
I know, it's weird. It's like I'm doing a lot. But then, it's kind of repetitive and not broken up by travel, which I'm used to and seeing a variety of people. So it's kind of, yeah, it's good. And it's also I'm ready for the next phase. For sure.

Cig Harvey 2:02
It's interesting. COVID has this year has, I think we'll all look back on it with such complicated memories, in many ways. Life has been simplified by lack of choices, or this is how it's going to be and, and I've sort of loved that because it's allowed for more creative space, in a sense. But then also, it's been awful in some ways too you know. It's a real stew of, of emotions and feelings. Isn't it? Like, it's, um, it'll be interesting to see how we sort of come out the other side and what, what we take what we carry with us from it.

Jennifer Yoffy 2:36
I know, I've been thinking a lot about that, you know, what changes I made even some, you know, not by choice, but that I am happy with? And you know, like, will, those continue on and,

Cig Harvey 2:48
Like what? What are you happy with?

Jennifer Yoffy 2:50
Um, I guess I've just spent a lot of time doing more kind of inner work and, and setting boundaries and keeping, you know, making decisions about people in my life and who's healthy and who's not healthy. And instead of it just being kind of a soup of whoever's around, you know, and filling my time. And I was just talking the other day, like, I don't think that I can do small talk anymore. And, you know, I think about like, I mean, part of it is there's just nothing to small talk about. Normally, it's like, oh, tell me about the trip you just came back from or like, this cool, like this funny story from a night out. And like, in the absence of any of that, it's like, alright, let's talk about some real things. And then, you know, and I don't really have much interest in, in talking just for the sake of talking anymore in a weird way. And, you know, and that definitely dictates, who I think will have bigger and lesser roles in my life. You know, if I can't get a cup of coffee with you and talk about real stuff, then maybe I'll just skip the coffee, you know, like,

Cig Harvey 4:04
Yeah, I mean, I mean, that what you just said, I think that's not nothing. That's like major life changes.

Jennifer Yoffy 4:10
Right?

Cig Harvey 4:11
Like, that's fundamentals, sort of existential questions of why we're here. And we know what purpose is why we you know, how we want to spend our time, you know, I mean, those that's, those are important questions to consider.

Jennifer Yoffy 4:28
Yeah, I've had a year.

Cig Harvey 4:31
Exactly. And also, you know, more time with your kids more time. You know, that's been a real just, I mean, just complete blessing for me.

Jennifer Yoffy 4:40
I actually had a question for you - have a question for you - that's not off this topic. Something that I noticed in your images and your writing and even your Instagram posts and different lectures I've heard you give is you seem to have this incredible gift of being able to be present in the moment and to find beauty and joy in the everyday. And I struggle with that. So, you know, part of this year, I'm trying to use meditation and other methods to slow down and to appreciate the right now, can you talk about this a little more? Is this something - Have you always been this way? Or is this a mindset you've had to work at?

Cig Harvey 5:22
I mean, first of all, thank you. And thank you for having me on here, Jennifer, it's great to, I love talking with you. And it's great to be here. You know, I actually feel like, what you just said, is essentially, the core of my work, that, you know, all of us have these central themes in their work. And that's, you know, that's every artist has a different central theme. And that's the pulse, that's the heartbeat of the work. And for me, that sort of recognition of the every day, and somehow trying to sort of put that every day on a pedestal or elevated somewhat, that to me is the the core of my work. So you know, and it's not something I picked, I didn't choose to be that way, that's just something that has come out of me when I work really hard, you know, and so I do think that it's, that's why I'm so grateful. And so, you know, so grateful to be a photographer and a writer who, I mean, that's, I think of my texts and images as sort of noticing, noticing something every day that in a way, it's like this gratitude journal, or just things that I'm absolutely grateful for, you know, and, you know, in a way, you almost don't need to print any of these pictures. It's this idea of, you know, they, they are evidence of something I saw this day, that either stopped me in my tracks or made me gasp or needed to be, just appreciate it in its simplicity. A weird leaf on the ground or something like that. So, I do think that it is a way of living that is that feeds my you know, everyday existence. I mean, I don't walk around with, you know, my head in the clouds and the birds tweeting, I mean, I, you know, there's a business of photography too and replying to emails. And so it's not that, you know, my life is skipping along with a picnic basket. But I think that the act of, of making pictures, and the way I use words is to really elevate that everyday. And I'm grateful for that, because it sort of. . . it forces me to do that, you know?

Jennifer Yoffy 7:27
Which do you think came first? Was it that you kind of, were always awed by these small moments and these, you know, things that you. . . the leaf on the ground? Or was it when you had the camera, or in your case, also, you know, the pen, and you were looking for a thing that you started to notice those moments?

Cig Harvey 7:55
You know, I think I have always been that way, you know, when I think about who I was as a kid, and this is what I love doing with with students and working like, well, who are you then because you're probably not so different than where you are now than it caught in your central values and in the way you are in the world. So I do think that that was a way that as a kid, I remember sort of laying in this, you know, my dad built this sort of, my mom built this pallet and a tree in an apple tree. And I remember laying it for hours as a kid. I mean, this was my den, you know, so and I think that that's not so far from what I do with the camera. Now, I think having the camera legitimizes and gives me reason to sort of go out there, it's sort of this note taking and same as a pen. But I think I was probably always that way.

Jennifer Yoffy 8:48
That's amazing. I mean, think about kids today, laying, you know, in a palette looking at a tree, unless they were also looking at their phone. I don't think that would happen.

Cig Harvey 8:59
I mean, I don't know. I mean, I think I think it's that balance. I mean, I also look at my phone too, right? It's, um, we're not all one thing or the other, you know? Sure. Yeah.

Jennifer Yoffy 9:11
So your images have such an intimacy to them. It feels like as a viewer, we're not. . .like that we're maybe looking directly into your life. It's like we can almost see your soul. At least that's how I feel. Do you feel vulnerable in the making or the sharing of your work?

Cig Harvey 9:33
Well, that's a really lovely thing to say, Jennifer, thanks.

No, I don't feel vulnerable. I don't feel vulnerable in the in the making. Do you mean do I feel like I've revealed too much or? No, I don't think so. You know, I make I make the work and then I put it out there and I move forward. I tend not to sort of over-analyze what how it could be construed. You know it, for me, I feel it can be no other way than just being honest. You know? Yeah, I think it's, it's something that I remember years and years ago, maybe 20 years ago, 18 years ago, I had a, I was working in self portrait at that time, self portraiture. And I had a show and there was a nude portrait of me up on the wall. And I felt completely. . . someone said, Oh, doesn't that feel strange for you to be there? And I felt, it didn't even occur to me, you know? Like, I can be vulnerable in my everyday life. But I didn't. . . it's almost like there's a disassociation between what I make, and actually who I am as a person, like, I'm not my pictures, I'm, they're a part of me, do you see? Hmm, I think Yeah. And that just, I have such a deep love of all things, photography and poetry, that it sort of becomes its own thing.

Jennifer Yoffy 11:06
Mm hmm. You know, it's hard to both create that separation mentally, but to not have it feel distant. In the final output.

Cig Harvey 11:18
Yeah, you're right.

Jennifer Yoffy 11:21
Good job!

Cig Harvey 11:24
Clearly not a conscious effort.

I think of myself just, you know, my job today is to go out there and see something that surprises me, or delights me, or shocks me, or, you know, and make a picture of it, I think, you know, it, it's not my job to sort of analyze how it's received or something, you know, that would stop me making, I just think that's, you know, and it also helps living in Maine, you know, in the middle of nowhere, just, it's not quite that, but it's, it's not like it's the metropolis and, you know, so it's, it's easier to sort of isolate yourself, and just get into this space of just making work, you know,

Jennifer Yoffy 12:05
How important is the book form to your process, and to each of your bodies of work? I mean, you made work for a long time before your first book came out, right? And then since then, do you conceive of work kind of, as a, as a book, as you're making it, like, this is a project and the ultimate result will be a book or it just, you make work, and at a certain point, you're like, this is cohesive, and I, I'd like to put it out in a different form.

Cig Harvey 12:35
You know, I, like you, I love books, I love love love books. And well, well, you know, my first book came out in 2011, and I really had been making that body of work for, you know, 11 years, 12 years. I would have published a book year one or whatever, you know, I would have, you know, just and I tried, probably, you know, I was tenacious, in, in, in my pursuit of a book, it took a while to sort of make that first book. And I just, I think that text and image, you know, that there's, I love exhibitions too, and I love walking into shows, but there's something if had to pick one or the other, the touch of the book, the smell, the feel, the places you go to with books, I mean, I, I teach bookbinding. And I love teaching bookbinding because this idea that you can then go yourself and make this object, I mean, about the sort of physical object of the photograph of the book, I love the sequencing, I love the sort of the journey that you go on. I once made a map of my the books that have changed my life, where I wrote from, you know, really, from the age of sort of 10 up to now, which books have I read, or, you know, photographic books, that have really sort of, I am in a different place after having read them or spent time with them. And I think of books as being as this whole world, where you're forever, you're forever changed after you've spent time with that written piece or photographic piece. So I think that, you know, well, while I would, perhaps would say that, you know, it also doesn't have to be a book. I think, for me personally, my deep love of books is that it becomes this goal. So I will always love the book and I think I can't help but see my work in that format. And whether it's a you know, a larger, larger book made over like Blue Violet has been made over four or five years or, you know, more of a one idea book. I mean, that too, is beautiful. I just love the form of the book. I'm completely addicted. When I had no money, I would literally get my paycheck from Maine Media. This is back in the late 90s. And I would like give it all to Tim Weyland, slide it across his desk. You know, I was obsessed with photo books and you know, bought my first Chris Killip when I was 13. I mean, so there's something that's this deep inherent love of photography books.

Jennifer Yoffy 12:45
So to your map. . . are there a couple of photobooks that come to the top of your head as being life-changing like you talked about?

Cig Harvey 15:21
Yeah, I mean, Chris Killip's In Flagrante was the first one and I'm looking over at my bookshelf as you speak. Sally, Sally Mann. Both At 12 and Immediate Family. Richard William - Do you know they're so good. Some Yamamotos I think changed and rocked my world. What else is on that list? I mean, it's a long list. Yeah, you should do it. It's really. . .

Jennifer Yoffy 15:53
I couldn't I - I cannot even imagine where to start. But I love the

Cig Harvey 15:58
You'll be surprised because you start with your age. How old are you? So then it takes away the sort of conceptual the cerebral, you're like, Okay, what was I doing that year? And what was I fascinated with in terms of literature or in terms of, you know, what visual art and you'll be surprised by I think by how both of them are linked. And the similarities between different art mediums writing and visual art. You know, it's all connected or who you were listening to, it might be interesting to do. I'm like,

Jennifer Yoffy 16:31
Oh my gosh.

Cig Harvey 16:32
You know, in illustration, and also the music you are listening to and see how it all connected. I become quite, I become quite fascinated with sort of charts and infographics, I have some in my new book and I think that's why I just love making sort of this, this data now visual, and I mean data in terms of like, what books I love, I don't mean something scientific.

What books would you say?

Jennifer Yoffy 17:01
Which photobooks?

Cig Harvey 17:02
or novels?

Jennifer Yoffy 17:04
I mean, oh, my god novels would just take me forever. And then photobooks. . . I change, like my affinity for them changes quite quickly. I mean, I never say like, I love this book, and then I don't love it anymore. But I'm interested in them for so many different reasons. And there's some that it's like design or you know, conceptually and from being a book, you know, appreciator to a book maker has definitely shifted my focus and made me interested in books, maybe even less about the imagery, but how the imagery works with the design to create an amazing, elevated, finished product.

Cig Harvey 17:51
Exactly like form and content coming together. I mean, there's no better place for that than in a book, I think, I mean, a no brainer example. But also, you know, the fact that your trajectory in your life has changed in what you appreciate in a book. That's so interesting to see mapped out, right? I mean, it's right, like map of your life, but you know, because you're, of course they shouldn't be the same. That would be a boring life that you're changing and evolving with what you're appreciating and what you're seeing, you know, and

Jennifer Yoffy 18:21

Adding music as another element - gosh. I mean, think about. . . I was obsessed with female vocalists in college, you know, it was like the Lillith Fair era of my life. And then now my friends that I listen to suicide music, which I love. It doesn't depress me, but I objectively can understand how the droning on my cause someone else to want to jump off a bridge. But yeah, no, that would be really interesting to kind of overlay these different things, these different points in life. You know, these kind of turning points that everyone has and

Cig Harvey 19:01

When you mean what, what music are you exactly referring to? Were you talking like the Cranberries or something when like,

Jennifer Yoffy 19:08

Oh, back in the day? Yeah. Oh, yeah. The Cranberries I loved. I loved Anita Franco. She was really like angry. And Fiona Apple. And Tori Amos. Yeah. Amazing.

Cig Harvey 19:21

Did you did you listen? Did you listen to Fetch the Bolt Cutters?

Jennifer Yoffy 19:25

No, you

Cig Harvey 19:26

Immediately. Okay. So good.

Jennifer Yoffy 19:31

Yeah, I've heard about it, but I haven't listened. I will, will do. And it sounds like I have a really big personal mapping project to do. How long did it take you to do that whole book map?

Cig Harvey 19:44

Not long. I mean, it's something that I mean it's for no one but myself. Right. Right. Like it doesn't have to be correct. I could just you know, I mean this going back into your memories, right? So I'm sure I'm missing remembering things in a way, but that's the whole point, right? It's like which what comes to mind when I'm, you know what I would do? Is that okay, I'm 25. Where am I living? I'm living in Barcelona. What was I doing? It's interesting you put yourself back in that space and it, you know, I remember being obsessed with this movie Baracha that was this is silent and not silent to music 35 millimeter film, it was a two hour documentary that took you around the world has all these different cultures. And basically the sort of this thesis on how a human kind of messing up the planet. Have you seen it? I mean, it's incredible. And you know, and then linking that to what I was writing or the pictures that I were making the time which was much more documentary, then then the work I am most known for now.

Jennifer Yoffy 20:44
It's fascinating. I keep a list of every book I've read.

Cig Harvey 20:48
Do you? Like where?

Jennifer Yoffy 20:51
In a little notebook

Cig Harvey 20:52
Wow. And you've had that notebook?

Jennifer Yoffy 20:54
Years

Cig Harvey 20:55
Wow. That's impressive. So you won't have to remember at all you'll just have to. . .

Jennifer Yoffy 20:59
Thank goodness because I have a terrible memory.

Cig Harvey 21:03
There you go. Yeah, yeah, I think I mean, I enjoyed making it. I just did like a timeline like you almost like a rock formation timeline and yeah, it was interesting to see you know, how how you shaped.

Jennifer Yoffy 21:18
It would also be interesting to put on you know, I collect art, mostly photography, so like adding that level too, because tastes change dramatically. Yeah, for me at least, in that over the 15 or 20 years I've collected photography and so you know the early pieces versus and then also the ones that are edgier or softer and. . . Wow. Yeah, alright the next time we talk we're gonna be. . .

Cig Harvey 21:47
And also mirroring that with maybe also like with this sort of personal what was going on in your life right yeah, I had a kid my hormones were crazy you know I look back on that first year of Scout's life and you know my whole and I did this in I did - this is another thing I've done - I did a timeline of my of smells of perfumes and how the perfumes that I've worn over the years right from you know, I loved perfume and sense of smell obviously from a very young age so I wore perfume as you know, early teen even a tween right so I wrote down all the different perfumes and I found out I didn't know this until I did it was the act of making it that revealed it that my sense of smell has changed from floral like Anais Anais. . . Do you remember that perfume?

Jennifer Yoffy 21:49
Yes yes! I totally had that!

Cig Harvey 21:56
So Anais Anais was like one of my first perfumes and it goes all out and it becomes more and more. So there are four different notes of smell -foru different types of smell you know for you go from floral through to oriental to wood to citrus. Anyway so just is citrus after floral and my sense of smell is much more you know has gone like very consistently up towards wood.

Jennifer Yoffy 21:58
You smell differently, or your preference for smell?

Cig Harvey 22:17
Sorry, my preference. So okay, who he is to where I am now it has gone from like these very floral perfume wearing to you know what I love to Yeah, I would never wear that perfume in is way too flowery to this deep woody smell. Like I said, I totally I'm like patchouli

Jennifer Yoffy 23:24
I once had this perfume. It was like an essential oil, in college, and it was called Egyptian Goddess. And I loved it. And then I had a friend from home and I would see her at breaks and stuff like holiday breaks. And she smelled so weird to me. Yeah. And finally, like on the third or fourth visit. I was like, "what perfume are you wearing? It's so interesting." And she said Egyptian Goddess, and I almost died. I know it can smell different on different people. But I was like, "Are people smelling me and being repulsed in the same way that I am with her?" I never wore it again.

Cig Harvey 24:05
You know, it's interesting with my thing, I found out the year that I had Scout every every year it went more towards wood and then like a radical change after I had Scout to back to floral for one year and then back up again.

Jennifer Yoffy 24:19
Wow.

Cig Harvey 24:19
I do think hormones, you know, they decide the day sometimes.

Jennifer Yoffy 24:24
They decide several of my days a month, I can tell you that. So back to books and things - actually, this is even not a book question. You told me that you're working on an opera. And I don't understand what this means, and I need to know more about it.

Cig Harvey 24:43
Okay, well, it's been on hold because of COVID, obviously the performing arts I think has been one of you know with restaurants alongside you know, but Performing Arts has really been you know. . .

Jennifer Yoffy 24:54
They've been hit hard, of course.

Cig Harvey 24:57
So, but we will we are getting back to it. So I have been asked to not just design the set. But this sort of concept. So we've taken Bluebeard's Castle. And we, I have taken sort of they gave me Bluebeard's Castle. And so I read the original libretto the score, and then I turned it into a sort of contemporary adaptation. And then you know, we'll create the visuals for it. So it will involve projections, it will involve video I'm trying to work out right now, this is my goal this summer, when, you know, I have some free time over the summer, so I'm going to really push towards that. I want to learn how to make holograms. So it's making sort of this world in terms of sort of you maybe if you can imagine some of my pictures, transferring that to the stage. Color - lots and lots and lots of color. That, you know, I think that we know, color is scientific fact affects the body. So I'm sort of thinking about that on a larger scale.

Jennifer Yoffy 26:08
Wow. Is this something you've always wanted to do? Or you just got the opportunity? And it was a way to kind of push your artistic practice?

Cig Harvey 26:16
Yeah, I mean, I think I've always had ... I am a curious person. And I have always well, photography has been this sort of just beautiful, like constant in my life. Since I was, you know, very young. You know, I'm always looking at ways to push on that. So I've been working in neon for 10 years, I've been doing these animations, I was working on them in 2009, 2007, I still work on them, you know. So obviously, text is something that has become very important in my work that I wouldn't have planned. And I didn't plan for that, you know, 10, 15 years ago. So I'm always open to sort of looking at where the work wants to go next. But this particular piece of the opera, I was approached by someone in that world, and they said, I think you can do this. And I said, I think I can too you know, even though oh, you know, never let them smell fear. I don't really I, you know, I'm curious about, I mean, another one of the sort of essential themes of my work or central not essential oils, central theme, you know, this idea of the senses, and what it is to feel that somehow is a constant for the last, you know, 15, 20 years or so. I have been pushing more and more in my exhibitions to be more experiential, to be more site-specific, to take control of like the color of the walls more to, to sort of said that someone feels like they're walking into an experience, sort of, I'm trying to mirror that in a book, although there are more limitations in that sense, in a different sense, different limitations, maybe I should say. So it does seem like there's natural progression to head towards a more sort of visual stage. I think that makes sense. I'm also working on right now, these rooms, you know, where people go in and experience both text and image and in a sort of more immersive way. But I don't know where that will go.

Jennifer Yoffy 28:17
I would like to go in one of those rooms!

Cig Harvey 28:20
Well, come to Maine.

Jennifer Yoffy 28:22
Well, I will well, and you've been using text more and more. I mean, you've always been a writer, but you've been incorporating it more and more in exhibitions and in your books as well. How important are words to your images? And do you think you could create one without the other?

Cig Harvey 28:40
Well, I did create one without the other for many years. And then putting - it was actually the book format that pushed me to experiment more with my words. And this was back in the sort of 2007, 8, 9. I'd always written all the way through, but I'd never intended. . . the writing was just a way to access more pictures. But like me and yoga, the reason I do I'm obsessed with yoga, I love doing it every day because it makes more space in my head for making pictures and making artwork. So I thought of the words almost as this jumping off point that it became attaching writing and attaching words to you know, the experience of making pictures helped me make more. I never intended to show them together.

Jennifer Yoffy 29:23
So it's like an exercise - like a warm up or a brainstorm. Practice sort of

Cig Harvey 29:28
Yeah, it's generative writing. I think in the academic world, it's generative writing. So you're writing to sort of generate more artwork. It's a way of you know, morning pages, going back to sort of the Julia Cameron of you know, method. So, but then I realized that actually, you know, the words I did have something to say and the words were saying in a different way than the photographs were. The photographs I could shroud sort of what was in a way what was going on with, you know, use of metaphor and color and light and there was something sort of direct that I really loved in the words. I also felt like the words could be more contemporary than the then the subject matter in the photographs. And what I mean is by for example, I often in my write writing work, I'll reference like, Google or our reference, for the one of a better just coming at doing amazon prime something I've never, I would never reference that in my photographs. Right? Yeah, I think that there's something for me that has it sort of more on its pulse of everyday life than everyday life, My pictures are also about everyday life, but they do look

Jennifer Yoffy 30:38
Contemporary versus timeless, maybe.

Cig Harvey 30:41
Right, exactly, exactly. And then putting them together, I think, you know, they add up to more than the sum of what they are individually. And then, you know, and so, you know, my first book came out in 2011, Emergency, and that had text and the text was on top of the photographs. And that was this beautiful thing, not always, but some in some pages. And that was this, like, great freeing thing that actually DEb, Deb Wood who designed my first three books was sort of pushed me that it wasn't you know, a book isn't a box of prints, it isn't an exhibit on the wall, that you can be free. And if you look at sort of these gorgeous examples of Japanese photo books of how, you know, they are sort of renegades in that of like, zooming in, like cropping, inverting, they're just free of these sort of constraints, often Western photo world books have where they, you know, it's sort of traditionally if we look at it, you know, historically photo books in the, in the West, it was, you know, very much the white border, every year, being on the right hand side of the pane on the left is blank, I mean, that's just not how it is in Japan, where you know, the smell of ink, it's full bleed, it's very, very different, you know, and, and so, um, I think for me, that that sort of, it's that explosion into sort of books and text and image, it was all sort of one stew. And then it's only in the last since 2019, that I've really moved towards showing the text in an elevated way the same as the photographs, because I often had for years and years, I have vinyl lettering on the wall. But now that's not enough. I want it to be letterpressed. I want it to be framed in the same way as the photographs so that it is elevated to the same level. I mean, I have been working in neon for a long time. And that's, you know, as a way to make the words more visual, as well.

Jennifer Yoffy 32:37
I love the neon pieces.

Cig Harvey 32:38
Yeah, I mean, I just love neon. I mean, I have some vintage neon around the house. I love living with it. Like every night I turn it all on, I light up the house like it's like Blackpool illuminations. Like it's a beautiful, it's just beautiful light you know. Anyway, you know, it just brings me joy that to see it. I just can't, it's sort of like I think of it like, What's something extraordinary that you can't believe is real? Maybe the glow worms that come on 56 minutes after the full moon in Bermuda? You know, it's like this thing Oh, fireflies or, you know, right, right? Just these everyday things that do exist that, you know, that kind of incredible.

Jennifer Yoffy 33:28
Mm hmm. So your career has, by all accounts been a huge success. And I curious to know, what you feel is the best decision you made along the way?

Cig Harvey 33:43
You know, that's a question I probably could, you know, dwell on for for many, many, many days. You know, I - I'll say this, I'll say that, you know, it comes back to what I consider my job to be, you know, just like, my job is like to make stuff. I mean, I really feel like and that gives me great solace, it sort of gets me out of the hole because as the inward stuff, and there's the outward stuff, right? The inward stuff is like the making of the work, getting in story like out of your body and into like pictures or into words. And it's this like, beautiful thing that asked for nothing more than just to be honest, it says really, you know, photography, just said, well, that just gives gives gives it, you know, is extraordinary, and it's only in service of the ideas. It's not trying to sell anything, it's not trying to, it's really pure and beautiful. And then there's the exterior goals, right, which is you know, getting books, getting the work seen, Instagram, all these things that in a way, you know, take you out of this sort of this exile and this making and this. So that has always been you know, just finding that balance between those two things. has always been something that I'm, as every artist, I imagine, you know, how is it not grapples with but you know, the scales go either way at many, you know, given any given day or any given minute right during COVID? For sure. So, your question was like, What is the greatest. . .

Jennifer Yoffy 35:20
The best decision you made? Do you feel like moving to Maine is helped you maintain that balance? Or in the right quantities on either side?

Cig Harvey 35:29
Yeah, exactly. I think that has been also living in a place that I'm inspired by, right, huge if you only make work when you you know, for example, random example, if you only make work when you go to Paris, but you live in Rockport, Maine, then you're not gonna be making enough work. Being in a place, especially when your work is about everyday that you're inspired by. So I think that has been huge. I've also realized that how important the state of Maine is to my work. You know, I lived in Boston for 10 years, and I loved my job there. I absolutely loved it. As a teacher at AIB, professor and I, but I only made one picture and all that time in Boston that made it into any book, just I love the city for so many different reasons. I love museums, I love clothes I love you know, I really, you know, I am off the world right now, in terms of my work, it's, it does not feed it in that way. Maybe it feeds it in an intellectual way or in a research way. But in terms of me making my work, I have to be in nature. And I think, you know, Maine looks very similar to where I grew up, Devon in England, and the ends are not so different than the blueberry barons, you know, so I think finding that place where I'm inspired every day, other marches a challenge, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, is one of the best decisions for sure.

Jennifer Yoffy 36:57
What do you feel is the biggest wrong turn you've made? And what did you learn from it? Like, was there anything that you kind of went in one direction and were like, you know, what, this, this doesn't feel right?

Cig Harvey 37:08
You know, I don't really think of things like that. It's not the way, it's not my nature, like, I'm a total optimist. Like, I wake up like, unless something which obviously has, you know, I'm a human that involves great loss, and, you know, indecision and fear and all of that stuff. But I typically, like my dad, I wake up very, I wake up happy, you know, I'm just, I am an optimist. So I tend to not analyze, like, Oh, my God, I should never have done that I should, you know, I just sort of move forward and do less of that stuff or whatever. So, you know, in terms of career, I don't feel like I have, I can say, pinpoint one thing. You know, I, I have a very, I'm proud of the, the, my career because it is I can really put it down to lots of hard work. Just elbow grease, and like, you know, being tenacious and when someone doesn't like my work, not taking it in this personal way, but almost using that as like, Alright, well, you just watch me or whatever, you know, that. So I think that, um, you know, I've tried, I've worked in many different avenues I, you know, obviously, I'm a teacher, I, you know, I've taught a really wide range of photographic subjects from like, alternative process for years, darkroom printing, which I loved, I love in the darkroom to commercial stuff to, you know, contemporary fashion seminars and things like that. And, you know, while fine art is always my first love, I have, you know, done a number of commercial jobs that I'm really proud of, and really, you know, even though Yes, they are ultimately trying to sell something, so it's less pure than art. I'm very proud of them, and they help pay the down payment on a home. And that's something that, you know, yeah, I'm proud of that, that, you know, pictures have really, they just been this sort of this constant in my life and give so well, you know, I'm doing less commercial work now. Much less because I, not just because of COVID, but also because, you know, I had Scout, nine years ago, so you know, just traveling less you know, that this is a, I see this as this sort of finite beautiful time I have with my daughter, so I don't want to be traveling constantly. So yeah, I would, yeah, this is there's no one thing I would say, I wish I hadn't done that.

Jennifer Yoffy 39:30
Do you feel like you've accomplished all that you originally set out to do? Or do you still have goals you'd like to reach photographically?

Cig Harvey 39:38
Oh my goodness, so many goals photographically? Absolutely. I mean, things are changing all the time. I mean, one thing I'll say is this, it's like, you know, I definitely have always celebrated every step of the way, you know, like very small victories. I, you know, I take a minute and say thank you and, you know, but I've got so many goals. I mean, there's so many things that I, you know, I just I have applied for Guggenheim eight years and never gotten it, you know, like, I'm gonna keep going, we're gonna keep with us it's a, you know, so there are so many things that I that, you know, I feel that I need to do with the work that I need to experiment with the work I mean, these new like these rooms, more experiential is I mean, there's so many things I I feel like I'm at the beginning. I don't feel like - I feel like the opposite of your question in the sense like, I yeah, there is a lot of work to be done. But beautiful work, and I can't wait to do it, you know?

Jennifer Yoffy 40:43
Yeah, that's a wonderful place to be to. Yeah, you know, to still have so much inspiration and so and to be so in love with it, that you kind of can't imagine an end to wanting to do new things.

Cig Harvey 40:59
Yeah. I mean, I, there were so many. There's so much research I need to do right now. I mean, I'm sort of working on a brand new book that will probably take three or four years, but you know, is really sort of digging into my obsessiveness around color. And, you know, I can't wait to learn more about the physical effects of color in that way. And so I do feel, I feel at the beginning, I feel like a newbie. But I also think that's, that's kind of wonderful, right? That even after all these years photography can still surprise me and there are, you know, so many pictures I haven't made yet. Sometimes I lie in bed, going, "I'm missing all these pictures!", you know, I mean, if you think about it, there was so many like, you know, just things that are shocking and glorious and amazing or like, so many things happening every day that our cameras can be witnesses to. And that's why I always say like, you know, when I you know, should I take my camera? I really try and not have that be a question anymore. Because if you don't, you know, if you don't have a camera with you, you cannot make that, right? I mean, that's a pretty terrible thing to be a photographer and not have a camera.

Jennifer Yoffy 42:16
Completely. Well, we should probably get off this podcast so you can get out there and find the photos. I've loved doing this. Thank you so much for for being on and having this great conversation.

Cig Harvey 42:29
Oh, thank you, Jennifer. I love doing anything with you. And I loved making our book, Reveal, last year. I mean, it was such an easy to working with Andrea and Debbie. I mean those two women have I mean it was an absolute dream to work with them on this book and to become closer with them.

Jennifer Yoffy 42:51
I love that set.

Cig Harvey 42:53
Yeah, we're still in touch. I mean what a what a what a really fantastic idea you had you know.

Jennifer Yoffy 42:59
Thank you. Thank you so much.

I'm obsessed with color too. And also how it. . . I need to be around certain colors. And then there are also colors that give me a an icky feeling. I don't want to be around.

Cig Harvey 43:22
What color gives you. . .

Jennifer Yoffy 43:24
I don't like any like browns and mustardy kind of muddy. Yeah. Which is why, it's interesting, people love the Southwest, and I don't.

Cig Harvey 43:37
Oh my god, me too! You have to be careful what you say because people go nuts for Santa Fe, and I love as a you know, I love the people there

Jennifer Yoffy 43:48
I'm like, this place looks thirsty and brown. And like I want to be in the Pacific Northwest. Like I want green and blue all day, all day.