Jennifer Yoffy  00:06

Welcome to Perfect Bound. I'm Jennifer Yoffy, the founder and publisher of Yoffy Press in Atlanta, Georgia. This is a podcast where we talk to artists about their journey, how they got where they are, what right and wrong turns they made along the way, and where they're heading next. Calling his approach a little bit messy and experimental, Matthew Brandt produces large scale photographs through labor intensive processes recalling the 19th century origins of photography, often incorporating the physical matter of the subject itself. Attuned to the history of his medium and its resolute physicality, and inspired by classical American landscape photographs Brandt traverses the West, photographing and collecting materials samples from nature and cities. The reciprocal relationships that Brandt creates between his subjects and the materials used to represent them are always conceptually grounded, often in response to social and environmental issues. He's deeply inquisitive, even fearless in his exploration of subjects, materials and processes, reinvigorating the medium of photography with a sense of wonder. Through his work Brandt poses a fundamental question about his magical seeming medium. What is a photograph? He received his BFA from Cooper Union in 2004, and MFA from UCLA in 2008. Brian has been the subject of several institutional solo and group shows and is in the permanent collections of many important museums and private collections. He lives and works in Los Angeles, please welcome Matthew Brandt to the Perfect Bound podcast.` So basic question, but something that I'm super curious about? How do you come up with your ideas? Like does the material come first or the subject? Or do they come together?

Matthew Brandt  02:01

I mean, it really sort of depends. Sometimes it is just I have a nice photo. Sometimes it's like, I just hear about something on the radio. And I'm kind of curious about it. And sometimes I just see an interesting stain or something. And wondering how that was made. I try not to keep it too locked in, in terms of the thing has to be this methodology. Like, it's only when I take a good photo, and material, but it really is, there's multi tentacles that I think an idea can be started from. And a lot of the times, it really just depends on whatever, and I try to keep it as open and elusive as possible. Like I even still now have tons of images of.... I mean, just as an example, I've been taking photos of like cars with astronomical names, just because it's kind of interesting that there's like old comments, right? You know, there's a lot of interesting, I guess, in maybe the 60s they were you know, interested in like space and so they have all these interesting names for cars and I just photograph these cars like the Galaxy and all this stuff and I still don't have any way to represent it, but I still continue to take these pictures, its just interesting. I don't know what's going to come of it, but maybe it'll work itself out. As another example, I just have, like, in my studio, I'm learning how calcium buildup is done like with limestone. And I bought a bunch of lime, like calcium carbonate. And you know, kind of like in the showers drain. I mean, there's like, yeah, calcium buildup. And I've just, I guess, spending so much time at home like wow, what is all this white stuff. I've been learning about how to try to make that into images. And I have little waterfalls of calcium buildup on some test materials and just trying to see how that could potentially make an image and I don't really have like an image or or subject matter necessarily, but it's like that material that is interesting, and just have some tests going off. So in the corner of my darkroom, I have a little waterfall thing with a bunch of lime in the water. That's just, you know...

Jennifer Yoffy  04:24

Slowly see what happens...

Matthew Brandt  04:26

Yeah. Yeah. So in other words, you know, I try to keep it open.

Jennifer Yoffy  04:34

So it could be the image like the comet cars, or it could be the material like the lime. And it's possible that neither of those meet each other's you know, like the, the astrological, astrological or astronomical?

Matthew Brandt  04:52

I guess it depends what your belief is. But yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Yoffy  04:57

Astronomical cars (laughs) might never, you might never, like, kind of realize that into a project if you can't find the right, material, like, ingredient type process that matches it. And same with the lime, like if you don't find the right imagery that makes sense with it. So how many of those, like kind of pieces do you have, at any given time just kind of floating out there waiting to find their partner?

Matthew Brandt  05:28

I mean, honestly, I, there's, there's a lot. And I try to keep tending to those ideas, you know, part two is just trying to, like, throw some fertilizer on them and see what works and what doesn't. But I'd say there's, I try to, for me, that is just as important as like, finishing certain works as well. So there's like, tending the garden, you know, like, um, and I feel like I try to do as much of that as possible. Because also, it's like a numbers game. You know, just like, throw a bunch of stuff on the walls, something's bound to stick kind of thing. I mean, maybe that's a certain erratic nature of the work, too.

Jennifer Yoffy  06:11

Do you ever worry that you're gonna run out of ideas?

Matthew Brandt  06:14

Um, yeah, I mean, I feel like, now that maybe I'm a little bit older, too. I feel bad that I'm, like, sometimes feel like, Oh, this was a good idea. But I came up with it, like 10 years ago. And I'm finally like, realizing it, because there's certain technical abilities that I have that I could do it. Yeah, yeah. So some ideas come out, like 10 years later. And for whatever reason, they still linger. And I think those are some of the good ideas. But at the same time, too, I feel bad, because it's like, oh, that's really old ideas. I have no new ideas, I'm just regurgiatating old ones. But I think that's, I guess, to touch upon what we talked about earlier, in terms of having a lot of different ideas, and some matchup and some don't, and having different, like, potential seedlings. So it's just like another seedling, and sometimes some sprout 10 years later, you know, and then some get really big, really fast in a day and then die off really quickly. You know? So I think it's, it's all like a very different set of parameters or timescale or whatever, in terms of making something but like you said earlier, generally, it is always how a subject or image relates to its material form. And sometimes they marry and sometimes they don't. But I've been trying to build the confidence, or the idea of just trying to do like, what about just straight photography? But for me, it didn't always doesn't quite click, I try to do it, then it's like, Yeah, but when this would be cool, if this had some whatever or something...

Jennifer Yoffy  07:57

Right, if I burned it, and... (laughs)

Matthew Brandt  07:58

Yeah, yeah. And I've been trying to make like normal inkjet prints. And then it ends up being like a project of photographs of like, inkjet cartridges or something. I can't like help myself, but try to relate back in the material. And rather than fight it, I should just like, embrace it. That's what I'm about. So I try my best to, you know, to stay true to the natural propensities of what I, you know, feel like doing, I guess.

Jennifer Yoffy  08:30

 Yeah, don't fight it.

Matthew Brandt  08:31

Exactly. Yeah.

Jennifer Yoffy  08:32

The world wants it! So you've made a lot of work and all different kinds of projects involving all kinds of materials, what project or body of work are you really proud of, even though it may not have had as much commercial success? So like, the Lakes and Reservoirs, is the project you're most well known for, but you've done a ton of really cool things. Are there other ones that you're like, that was actually pretty badass? And, you know, like I pat myself on the back for that idea?

Matthew Brandt  09:07

Yeah, I mean, there's, I feel like there's a lot of work and it's hard to make that correlation with success. What's successful, you know, sometimes, success can be like commercial success, like Lakes and Reservoirs, or its success of I feel very validated from making that work and proud of myself for doing that. But, I mean, there were certain success in terms of works that I did early on with I was doing, making pictures of like ashes. Like when I had my aunt passed away, she's Buddhists. She was cremated, and I had her ashes. And I made some pictures out of that. That for me, it was just very personal analysis, and I also did it with my cat, you know, and these things that I would never sell and it's no one ever sees it. It's actually sitting here in my office. You know what I mean? Like, it's Just personal things that for me, it's like very satisfying. And for me very successful because it's imbued with this very, I don't know, intense personal material.

Jennifer Yoffy  10:09

Right. And you've been able to kind of process a difficult thing in a very uniquely "you way."

Matthew Brandt  10:17

Yeah, yeah. And you're right, like you say, it's about processing certain emotions. And, and I think that, I would hope that all the work that I make is about processing whatever state that one is in. And I think you can make an argument that all artists do that, you know, it's about processing a certain thing, and there is circumstance, and, you know, it's what you make it and, and I think there's something.... I found myself that whenever, you know, there's sort of hard times, you know, I find satisfaction, or it helps to go in the studio and just work it out. You know, like, and for me, it's always been about, you know, making things with your hands as a way to/or even thinking or whatever is a way to process emotions and digest it and get through it. And, you know, sometimes other people like it, sometimes they might not relate, I don't know, but I think that's kind of part of the whole, you know, ouvere I guess you could say.

Jennifer Yoffy  11:17

So do you in a different angle? Do you see your work as political? Or does it have an element of activism? A lot of it seems to have kind of an environmental streak. And I didn't know if that's intentional, or if that just kind of happens, given that you are focusing so much on the materials.

Matthew Brandt  11:38

I mean, I do think it is a circumstance of the process and what we talked about earlier, in terms of digesting and processing circumstance, I think it's kind of inevitable for one to process the world around them. And like you said earlier materials is environmental, as much as you you can't deny that. So it sort of seems natural, that environmental concerns with tie into the work. That's not something that I like want to come out and say, Oh, I'm just making this just to preserve the environment. So it's more like just circumstantial. And I feel like I'm, you know, there's a part of me that wants to say, yeah, yeah, I'm totally all about this. And that's why I'm doing it. And, you know, but I mean, I would like to say that that was the main reason is, I'm trying to, like save the world. Really, I'm just making things and this is a part of it. And I think it's, I mean, I'm happy to, you know, work with these materials. And this is, and I'm happy to shine light on certain situations, you know, like, I don't know, there's a lot like melting icebergs or whatever. But I would say, I'm not, I don't have a business card that says, like, environmentalist or anything like that.

Jennifer Yoffy  12:55

Do you have a business card at all though? (laughs)

Matthew Brandt  12:58

No, but I, I just wouldn't know what to put on it, you know?

Jennifer Yoffy  13:05

Or who to give it to?

Matthew Brandt  13:06

Yeah, yeah. And I think it's kind of charming. A lot of the times when people ask for a business card, I end up just like ripping a piece of paper from something and writing my name on it. I feel like, people always think that's cute, for some reason. And then they give me this like eight-ply, embossed, like gold foil thing. And I'm like, wow, this is, this is....

Jennifer Yoffy  13:27

You have to learn or maybe have to is the wrong word. You learn a lot of really interesting processes. I mean, even like, the materials that you use, and the silver work with the trees, tell me about that. Like, are these things that you just are you kind of a handy person that just kind of knows how to do this? Or do you have to like, dive deep into YouTube to figure out how not to kill yourself with these toxic chemicals. And I assume like heavy duty equipment.

Matthew Brandt  13:56

it's definitely the ladder. I'm on YouTube, watching people. And it's amazing what you can learn and the things that everybody's already done. And I figure why reinvent the wheel if someone's done it at some point. And I think it started early on with trying to work with early photographic processes. Like, I think one of the earliest pieces I made was like a salted paper print, or like alternative process. And it was just buying a kit. And then they tell you how to do it and all this other stuff. And then, you know, you realize what you can do to make it your own, you know, for instance, I was just taking people's bodily fluids and using that as hard content to put on some pictures. But, you know, later on, then it's like, oh, well, they did this, I can do this. And I think for me, it touches on like, you know, fundamentals of photography, they're just materials and things and someone did it and there's always a way to go about doing it and I like to tinker with things. You know, I like to try to figure out how to do it and so it's also kind of fun to figure it out. And I think also too, like when I started making working with silver, it was first from trying to figure out how to make daguerreotypes and it requires silver. So at that point I was melting silver coins. You know there's US dollar silver coins. You make the silver nitrate to silver to make the daguerreotypes. And so I was already learning about silver and I kind of understood silver has different properties to make blacks for silver gelatin prints for photography. So, yes, silver was fundamental to photography's development. So it kind of felt natural if I want to work with this thread of photography. Okay, this is like a big chunk of photo history. Let's work with silver. Let's really do it. Let's see what silver is about. So then I started to learn like, Oh, yes, silvers, they would make mirrors out of it, let's learn how the mirror making process of silver works. And you start to realize all these different applications of silver, they used to like, drip silver nitrate in baby's eyes for weird things, for whatever reasons. You know, so there's all these weird, you know, applications for these materials. And then sort of going that thread of silver led me into Okay, I can make daguerreotypes, I made some daguerreotypes. And then Okay, I can make mirrors, let's see how mirrors work. And that's where I got into spraying the silver mirroring solution onto silver gelatin prints for the, the silver series that forest pictures that you mentioned. And so it was really just about collapsing that, you know, two different kinds of silver, the photographic silver, and the silver mirroring material on top, and then just sort of seeing where that goes. And I also like the idea that a viewer can see themselves in the image and trying to like broaden out this ideas of the rectangle on the wall, you know.

Jennifer Yoffy  16:54

Yeah, I love those pieces. How often do you try a thing like that and it just doesn't work? I mean, I kind of get the impression that you're like, Oh, I'm just gonna put this silver in this silver, and I'm like, oh, poof, there's a tree. And I mean, I try things and it never works. So, Meghann Riepenhoff, who you know, we just did that project together, Element. She's from Atlanta. She came here, I was helping her, we went to the Chattahoochee River, and water was washing up on our paper and making all these amazing things. And I was like, I'm going to get a cyanotype kit, I'm going to do like weird combinations, you know, like, not the proper proportions and I'm going to do it on it. They all came out blue, they all came out the exact same blue. Even though, for each one, each paper, I'm like, This one I'm gonna coat this way. And you know, and I was like, I can be a crazy art scientists too. Not true. Not true.

Matthew Brandt  17:54

You could if you like, stayed at it more, you would eventually...

Jennifer Yoffy  17:58

(laughs) Yeah, I was like one and done, I can make paper turn completely blue. So how often do you try things? And it's a failed experiment? Or is it more just like an iterative thing where you're like, Okay, it's getting closer, it's getting closer,

Matthew Brandt  18:15

it's definitely the faith in the process, that it's going to get closer. And when it doesn't, there's always something else to work on. So that's some of the benefit of just having different things happening. Because it's like, you know, what, like, this isn't working. Let's just like, shelf it, and then come back later. So there's a lot of projects that maybe I just have a bunch of stack of blue sheets of paper that I'm like, you know, what, like, actually, let's just try to throw some silver on these blue sheets of paper and you know, maybe the blue sheets of paper project turns into something else. So, you know, I definitely have a certain hoarders practice that's happening, like I keep a lot of tests. And there's always, you know, early on, like, early experiments, like still, I still keep around because those are like learning devices and a lot of ways too.

Jennifer Yoffy  19:18

How does humor play into your work? So I mean, there's certain pieces like the fly paper and the peach pie albumen, like they seem a little tongue in cheek, but like, how do you figure out how far to push some of that so it doesn't become silly, and it's still, you know, it's clever?

Matthew Brandt  19:38

Yeah, I mean, that's one thing that I think that, I guess, early on, at some point, I was trying to think about the structure of jokes, and how they play into making kind of, I don't know, joke pictures. You know, I think there's something really deep and important about humor and comedians and how they can sort of reach certain truths in a way. And I think even at the time, I was like reading Freud jokes in relation to the unconscious and all this trying to like, think about humor and jokes as as a way to reach something that's, you know, truthful or important. Um, and I think that, you know, there is a kind of delivery process of jokes. And then there's the gets you with the thing, right? There's a certain, I don't know the exact structure, I'm not a comedian, I don't pretend to be or whatever. But there's a kind of delivery, and then there's the punch line, or whatever. And I think I noticed that some of my works, were kind of structured like that in the sense that you would look at this thing on the wall, and then you're like, Okay, that's a cool picture. Wait, that's made out of dogshit? What the, you know what I mean? I, if you want to call it a punch line, or there's a sort of layered effect, or whatever you want to say there, I started to see relation with jokes, and the way that the work is made. And for me, I try not to just make it like, okay, clever, it's funny. Or like, it's, I try not to make like, I don't deliberately try to make a one liner, whether it is or not, you know. But, I think that jokes, and their structure or something that I did think about and then do think about, but I think maybe I've thought about it too much and digested, and now it's become like a part of my, I don't know, normal thing, you know, like, I don't even think it's funny anymore. You know, like, it's, it's a weird way we get in it so much. But um, I mean, I think that I guess what happens too, is just something unexpected is funny, right? There's the, the huh, or the something, that I think makes it think that it is a joke, or it's funny, I love humor, I love trying to work with it. And I think it's important to have humor in your life, right? So I mean, I think that there are some projects that make me take a more serious tone, you know, with like collecting, like, carbon from burn forests, for instance, you know, something I'm working on, versus I don't know, something else, which is like, I don't know whats something that's more funny. I think there could be something that is just weirder or, you know. And I think that each project has its own personality, like we talked about earlier, sometimes, you're just in a bad mood, you know, and then it's just a bad mood project, or you're in a really ecstasy project. And that becomes its own. So I tried to capture I mean, not capture, but I try to work with, you know, as many plateaus and whatever frequencies as possible. And kind of like, we have all these like modes in our life. And everybody has certain emotions tried to translate that in different way. And so reaching different tones, I guess, if that makes sense.

Jennifer Yoffy  23:02

Yeah, no, that that makes perfect sense. I mean, I think you know, the silver, I called silver trees. But, you know, that's definitely was more of like a meditative type project where you were kind of looking deep into something and inside yourself versus maybe the flypaper or the dogshit. I mean, maybe you were looking at it in a different way, but I'm just saying.

Matthew Brandt  23:26

The title of this podcast, you mean, like Matt Dogshit. (laughs)

Jennifer Yoffy  23:30

I think I warned you that I am going to ask you questions about what you think was the best decision you've made in your career and what was maybe a decision that you thought was not so great, or like a wrong turn, at the time, but you learned things from it. So if you know, thinking back and I feel like I, I have hypotheses of what these can be but what do you think was the best career decision you've made, or the best decision you've made that has impacted your career?

Matthew Brandt  24:07

Maybe early on, like in like, in high school. I wasn't really, I sort of put all my, I was pretty good at like drawing and painting and not really good at anything else. I mean, suffered trying to skateboard or whatever, but like, I think I'm glad that I put all my chips into sort of being able to just pursue like making things you know, like, drawing and painting and eventually going to art school and all that stuff. Because, um, you know, I was pretty much like an like a C average student. I was not good at anything else. And just love painting and drawing. And I just sort of went all in and just did that a lot. And then eventually just went to school in New York, and I think that was a good decision. Because I got into the school which is like free tuition, which is amazing. My parents were like, great, go there. And then so I think just doing that, and really pursuing art, like, just, like, let's just try this, even though I didn't know that you can have a like, actually a career in making art, you know, I didn't know. But it was like, I really love doing this, just go for it. And I think that was a good decision for me. And also just to live in New York, I think as like a, you know, as a 18 year old, I think you learn really quick. Like, you know, you have to find an apartment and you're like, Oh, shit, I think it's important to get ripped off buying hash in Washington. Because it's like, you learned so much really quick living in New York, you're like, Okay, and you get like street smarts. I mean, even though I like grew up in LA, there's a lot of stuff happens. But New York is just like its own little, like thing that you, you, yeah, you grew up pretty fast. And you experience a lot of stuff in such a tight little moment in time. And, and I think in those years, too, as like an 18-20 year old, you're just sort of like a sponge, and stuff and seeing what you can get away with too. And I think all that stuff has made me who I am in a lot of ways. But also even moving back to LA from New York, I think was a really good decision. Because I think I was getting a little bit maybe, I don't know, burnt out or whatever. But, you know, I was like missing home. And like, I lived in New York for like six years or something and then moved back. And I went to grad school at UCLA, and moved back home with my parents, and lived there and like full fridge and food was amazing. Man, like, like, that was nice too not having to worry about, like, making money to eat and stuff, and to focus back on making art in grad school. And that familiar clarity of being home, I think also grounds you pretty well. Like I think they call it like a boomerang generation thing. Like, kids even come back. I think that's like a, that's what I am. Whatever, but, and I think that there was something that was important in having that familiarity and feeling comfortable with, you know, making things or just, you know, I could be who I am. Like, in New York, I felt like I was always, you know, trying to be a New Yorker, when, in reality, I was like, never really a New Yorker, you know, but like, just trying to like, stay on the treadmill in a lot of ways. Um, yeah, but I don't know if that answers the good decsion.

Jennifer Yoffy  27:31

Yeah, that does. Do you want to hear what my hypothesis was?

Matthew Brandt  27:34

Yes, please.

Jennifer Yoffy  27:35

It was no, it was similar, but for a different reason. So I had read along the way of preparing for this that you so your undergrad, so you're from LA, but you went to New York for your undergrad and that education wise, you really, the degree and you know, the people that you studied with it was really anchored in a lot of like the history of photography and process. And then when you went to grad school back in California, it was much more like conceptual, wide open. And so I was thinking that that was the best decision kind of having these two, two strong art education as a base, but then being kind of diametrically opposed. But at the same time, like that's what you, what your art making is about. It's like very conceptual things, but it's very much rooted in the materiality and the process.

Matthew Brandt  28:33

No, definitely. Yeah, I would say that. That's, that's, like, better said than what I say. Can we just dub in what you said? Yeah, let's do that.

Jennifer Yoffy  28:44

Okay, cool. (laughs)

Matthew Brandt  28:46

Exactly. That's really true. That's something I didn't like, really consciously think of at the time. You know, I yeah, I did study with sort of some heavy conceptualist. And I thought, at one point, I thought, like, Okay, I'm a photographer, I'm making images, but I'm adding to the heap. You know what I mean, like, you feel a deep responsibility of just or the burden of making pictures. It's like, Oh, this has to be really good. If I'm gonna put it out there, you know, but now, and then at some point too you're just like, in west coast in LA, it's a little more like, fuck it, you know, like, let's just play around a little bit more. And I think you're right, having that, that, that dialogue between the two ends, I think, is a lot of how I work too. In terms of there's always the conceptual crutch, or at least I try to have that responsibility in setting these parameters. And then once that's done, you can see where where it goes.

Jennifer Yoffy  29:44

Right. Can you talk about a wrong turn you feel like you made and what you learned from it.

Matthew Brandt  29:50

Uh, wrong turn.... I don't know, it's tough to say wrong turn. I mean, I know it's cheesy to say that, like, everything like leads you to where you're supposed to be. But I mean, I don't know if there's necessarily any like really distinct bad decision that I made that I can think of in terms of career wise. I think, I sort of wish that I was maybe a little bit more accepting and comfortable with myself early on. And when I say myself, in terms of just like, knowing that I have, like, it's okay to be who I am and work a certain way. And I think early on when you work, you're just sort of like, anxious and you're trying to fit a certain model of what you should be or whatever. As I get older, I just like, this is who I am. Fuck it. You know what I mean? Like, I have to just embrace who I am. And I think I wish I learned that earlier. Because then I think I would be a little bit more comfortable.

Jennifer Yoffy  30:59

Yeah, I think we all feel that.

Matthew Brandt  31:01

Yeah, yeah, maybe that's just maybe that's not a good answer too because it's like...

Jennifer Yoffy  31:04

No, it's a great answer. I mean, it's super relatable, I think for anyone in any career, or just life.

Matthew Brandt  31:13

Yeah, yeah. That like that song, I wish I knew what I know now when I was younger... But yeah, more or less, yeah, just play that track over and over. (laughs)

Jennifer Yoffy  31:26

Got a lot of audio editing. (laughs)

Matthew Brandt  31:28

Sorry.

Jennifer Yoffy  31:30

Um, what would you say? Is your barometer for success in photography? Or in the art world? And like, do you feel like you're there, like, you've, you're satisfied with what you've achieved, or you still have a lot more that you need or want to do to get to a place where you're like, Okay, I made it, you know, I did what I set out to do?

Matthew Brandt  31:54

Well, for me, it's hard to say what, what made it for me, I do feel like I would like to do more interesting projects. And for me, it's always interesting, like, to what's next? What's like, you know, um, you know, there's certain shows that I'm working on, like, I'm doing a show in St. Petersburg, Russia. I'm working with birch trees. And that's like, really exciting, because it's like, Okay, I get to work with birch trees. And that came because like, okay, that exhibition, it was an invitation. Okay, I'll do it. And I feel like if it'd be nice to do another show at another institution, or, you know, or, for instance, like also next year, I'm doing a show in a cemetery, Forest Lawn Museum, sort of death and photography. Interesting. So I think it's the step by step ladder process in terms of, like, I would just like to do more and more projects and see what comes of it. In terms of like a, like a self-esteem, satisfaction thing that you talk about, I mean, I guess I'd be fine. If like, I died tomorrow, you know, it'd be fine, whatever. But it'd be nice if I could get more done. You know, after that, I mean, I would like to do more projects. And it's, of course, it'd be nice to like, do a Guggenheim show or whatever, but like, I'm not anticipating that ever happening either. Do you know what I mean? Whatever happens happens, and I feel content at the time, too.

Jennifer Yoffy  33:30

Yeah, no, that's really I mean, it's important, I think, to I think that a lot of people, myself included, you accomplish a thing that was maybe a goal and then you like, as you see it coming into sight, you move the goalposts farther. So you're not like celebrating your successes or being content along the way. You're just like, Oh, well, if I could do that, then I could do this. And, and I think it's, you know, it's been interesting talking to different artists and asking this question, but it's like, you know, how do you... it's a tightrope of being, like, proud of yourself and satisfied that you've been able to do what you've done while still being motivated? And, you know, and energized and inspired to continue to do?

Matthew Brandt  34:23

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And it's hard. It's, yeah, it's really you're, you're your own critic in a lot of ways too you have to gauge when it's done or when it's not. And I just figured too, it's like, if if I can't do it anymore, or whatever, that's, that's okay. I mean, I'll just pick up gardening or something or, like, it's, it's... Yeah, I mean I think the fun part, too, it's like tinkering in the studio. It's like I like getting, like tools. And, you know, certain projects will cover certain things and then I become, you know, a master of none kind of thing, you know, whatever can do all this stuff and, and that's and I like thinking if I can do things good enough too because sometimes good enough is great in some fields. (laughs)

Jennifer Yoffy  35:17

(laughs) As long as you're not actually welding something to like a pipe that needs to be sealed forever.

Matthew Brandt  35:26

Yeah, I've done my own plumbing which is problematic. But yeah, it's been fine for the past six months. Duct tape is good for everything.

Jennifer Yoffy  35:37

Yeah, yeah, I've heard that. That's what they say on YouTube.

Matthew Brandt  35:40

Yeah, but you that's how you learn, you know, the first pipe is duct taped. And then the next one you make, maybe you'll use actual solder or whatever. And then, you know, I feel like that sometimes these you know, like bad decisions, they're just like learning opportunities kind of thing.

Jennifer Yoffy  35:56

Yeah, absolutely. That's all my questions.

Matthew Brandt  36:00

Well, that's all your questions? Okay. Cool.

Jennifer Yoffy  36:03

I mean, do you have, we can keep talking. Is there more? What's a project you're most excited about right now? Like on the horizon?

Matthew Brandt  36:14

Well, there's a couple of things. One of them is, you know, I think I mentioned this Forest Lawn Museum show that's gonna come up next year.

Jennifer Yoffy  36:23

Yeah, the cemetery one?

Matthew Brandt  36:25

 Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Yoffy  36:26

Do you only work on that on your bad mood days?

Matthew Brandt  36:29

Yeah, exactly. That's my, like, I get it. And all that stuff. You can unload, you know. But, during what I think we talked about doing the show, like last year, or whatever, it was supposed to be 2020. And then obviously, it closed during COVID. But during COVID, in March, they have this David, marble David replica sculpture that fell and broke. And it was like, just when, you know, the, the city was shutting down and all this and this sort of idea of this Goliath and David falling. It was like, You're beautiful. And I think someone just sent me a link and like, oh, did you hear this, you know, and then we might want to do a show there. And then I talked to the director. So I was able to get some pieces of David. I photographed David, like all the broken pieces and all that stuff. So I was able to ground down the marble and I'm using that as a pigment to print these pictures of these broken David sculptures. Like, and also like, my dad's name is David. So this whole whole weirdness thing happening? No, but um, but anyways, it's kind of an interesting project that's currently being done. And I'm trying to print them on roofing paper, which I'm talking to the conservationists that I work with that, seeing if that's okay, but it seems like it's okay.

Jennifer Yoffy  37:51

Why roofing paper?

Matthew Brandt  37:53

Well, I mean, I like the idea of working with this construction material, a roof is like a shelter, that whole.... You know, there's kind of implications in the material. And also, it's black. Marble will look good on the black. There's a lot of like, technical and like, I guess you can say, like, conceptual, like ties and also there's some really funny, not funny, but they they print like the logo on the roofing paper. And it says, like, made in USA and all this weird stuff on it, that ends up looking like kind of interesting Roman symbols or whatever, like pierced through. Anyway, sorry, I don't have any images. But um, there's a lot of weird things happening that I think is like, all the pieces are coming together in an interesting way. And I like when that happens is that like, you know, at first I just had all these broken David pieces and took photos and I didn't really know what to do. But you know, and for a while I was trying to make what they call resinotypes, which is a archaic photographic process that actually Jim Welling told me about. I did like a zoom class visit during COVID. And, you know, me and him, we always end up just talking about archaic photo processes. And he was telling me about this resinotype process, which they used to use people's ashes as the pigment for making memorabilia pictures of people. So it was like making pictures out of people's ashes. I was like, Oh my God, why didn't I know about this already? So then I started playing around with that with the marble. But it's just, it's not worth it's too hard. I did all these tests. And it's like, you have to like, like sensitize the gelatin, keep it in like 102.7 degrees. You know, and it's like, I've done so many tests. And it's like, you know, it's not worth the, the amount of work so I ended up like doing a, you know, updated version of that. That's a little bit more..., it makes for more interesting pictures. But, you know, so there's all these different routes. So I have like a stack of like, you have your stack of blue papers, I have my stack of resinotype prints of bad David pictures. You know, maybe one day they'll end up somewhere else. Right? And another project, actually right here you can kind of see I it's funny. I just have this on my desk. But you can see this thing right here. Yeah, this is actually algae growth on water paper, watercolor paper.

Jennifer Yoffy  40:28

No,

Matthew Brandt  40:29

Yeah, this is just a certain kind of algae. So I've been working...

Jennifer Yoffy  40:34

Is that acrchival? Does it like, grow more? How do you get it to grow only in the...

Matthew Brandt  40:41

Well that's why, because you have a negative it grows where there's lights, like a lot of plants. So photosynthesis. So I have a negative. And I've been working with this marine biologist, Brian Palenik, at UC San Diego. And actually, I just recently sent him a whole batch of negatives. And we've been working on some pictures, a portraiture project. And he's been helping me grow algae pictures, because he told me how to do it. And I've set up a whole, you know, clean area in my studio, which is very rare, because my studio is a mess. But one area that's supposed to be like the clean area, right? Because you have to like, kill all the germs and all this stuff, it has to be very sciency official. But I can't get it clean enough. I always just grow black mold. And like several months of growing black mold, I think why Palenik was like, just give me the negatives, I'll do it. You're embarrassing me. And I'm on my test. And he's like, you know what, it could be this, it could be that and like going through all this stuff. And I like bought all this equipment, all this stuff to like, try to make these algae pictures because, you know, mixing agar solutions and like, the main thing is just disinfecting everything. So he has this giant machine which like, kills all the germs. He's like, you could do it in a microwave, theoretically. So I'm like, it's not the same. So he's been helping me. And, you know, he's been really great on trying to make these interesting pictures, which is another thing that I've been working on, not me, I feel like he's doing most of the work. This is kind of the first time that I'm like, kind of sending it out to him. And I feel bad because he gets a stack of negatives and he's like, Ahh what the fuck.

Jennifer Yoffy  42:33

(laughs) I've got actual science to do.

Matthew Brandt  42:38

Yeah, he's like, I'm trying to like save the world. And he's like, this guy just wants to doodle, you know. But you know, it's really interesting. And he was telling me there's like different algae for different colors. So there's some that are red, some blueish, so there's all these different, and he, you know, sends me and gives me the Latin names on the tubes. And I'm like, this is the red one. Um, but yeah, so there's a lot of, that's one thing that I mean, that's been on the shelf for I mean, years, when we first started working there when I went out there, and we started working on that. And finally it's becoming, you know, you know, there's more things that are happening, but you never know, you know, that'll fall off for another while. Yeah, I don't know.

Jennifer Yoffy  43:29

I want my face in algae.

Matthew Brandt  43:32

I gotta tell you, it takes like a month to make, but I'll just send him another batch. No, but he's been super sweet. And really, it's like very much a collaboration because I wouldn't know how to do any of this stuff if he wasn't explaining it to me. And then, you know, I think originally he just saw my work. And he sent me an email and said, Hey, I know you're doing work with like, lakewater and stuff like that and I think you'd be interested to see some of this algae material that I've been working with. And he was originally just asking me about the colors like, you can make a color photograph from this. And that was just way too hard. You know, you can't, you know, it'd be....

Jennifer Yoffy  44:17

Right, becauseyou'd have to have like certain algae in certain places.

Matthew Brandt  44:19

Yeah. And, you know, at the end of the day it all ends up being kind of brownish. I think and, you know, I don't know, necessarily the archival nature. I mean, in theory, the algae dies on the paper, so it's more like stains, but I don't think you're going to keep an intense green or an intense red. So yeah, I mean, I learned that the hard way in the beginning. One of the earliest photo process of doing was gum bichromate and trying to make color pictures and you know, you have red, blue, green, the red was blood, the blue was blueberries, and the green was like ground up grass I was making. For the first five minutes I was like, Oh, this looks great, you know. And then like a week later I'm like wait, this is just like a sepia tone photo you know.

Jennifer Yoffy  45:04

This is like rot. (laughs)

Matthew Brandt  45:05

Yeah, exactly. But you I guess you learn quick. But, sometimes that's interesting, too. You know, I've done some pictures of materials that just shifts colors. You know, I've gotten some, some feedback from, like an art advisor who sent me a picture of bubblegum that was, like a bright, like, I think it was a bright cyan. No, it was a bright purple. And then they sent me an image of it currently, and it was a bright cyan, so it just completely shifted colors.

Jennifer Yoffy  45:37

Oh, wow.

Matthew Brandt  45:38

Which, you know, I don't know, because it's like...

Jennifer Yoffy  45:40

It went from like grape to blue raspberry.

Matthew Brandt  45:43

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, the flavor is like that, too.

Jennifer Yoffy  45:46

Wow! It's like we did a taste test.

Matthew Brandt  45:49

Yeah, yeah. That would be cool. Yeah, we thought it would be cool to... like one point, we were joking with the framing said like, drill holes in some of the pieces. So you can smell, you know, paint with like, Laffy Taffy, or whatever. And it smells great. You know, but then I guess the ant thing might be problematic. We're just doing a farm project, which is fun for any collector in their home. A little kitchen piece.

Jennifer Yoffy  46:15

Yeah. Yeah. (laughs) I can't say I would want a black mold piece.

Matthew Brandt  46:19

You sure? But even now, for instance, I'm doing that show in Russia. I'm working with ceiling tiles, you know, that like kind of ceiling tile material that's supposed to absorb the really ugly? Yeah, yeah. So I've been printing with that. Printing coffee, and ammonium phosphate crystals. So I was trying to make the ceiling stains and actually, it's gonna be a giant piece that's shown on the ceilings.

Jennifer Yoffy  46:48

Oh, thats awesome.

Matthew Brandt  46:49

Yeah, so it would be cool. But you know, in the process of growing crystals, and coffee and all this stuff, and it sits in and growing crystals, it has to grow with heat, because once the slower the process of the evaporation, the bigger the crystals. So being in these chambers for like weeks before I open them up, and they like stink. Ammonium phosphate and, and the I think it's calcium that is in the the board makes sulfur, which is fart smells. Like we're making farts in the studio, and then it ends up looking like mold. And I'm like, I'm looking at mold stains for inspiration for how I want the pieces to look. I don't want it to look like when you walk in the room you're like, Oh, man, this place is huge water damage, you know. It ends up being like an image of these caves that I've been photographing.

Jennifer Yoffy  47:47

Oh, wow.

Matthew Brandt  47:49

So yeah, stains could be good too.

Jennifer Yoffy  47:51

Gosh, there's just... Yeah, I don't think you're gonna run out of ideas.

Matthew Brandt  47:56

Yeah, yeah. But it could be just all mediocre stuff. You know, maybe if I just focus, it could be good. And then, you know, I don't know.  Yeah, you're making fart tiles, though. That's not mediocre. That's exceptional. Yeah, I know, approach Home Depot and see if they'll design your line.

Jennifer Yoffy  48:12

Right. (laughs) This was so awesome. Thank you for doing this today.

Matthew Brandt  48:20

Oh, thank you for having me. I mean, this is the first time I've done this like podcasting. It's it's, it's fun.

Jennifer Yoffy  48:25

You were, you're a natural.

Matthew Brandt  48:27

Oh, thank you. I'm going to get a micriphone just like you got, thats cool.

Jennifer Yoffy  48:31

That's the only reason I do it, for the headphones and the microphone. Just, you know?

Matthew Brandt  48:36

It looks legit.

Jennifer Yoffy  48:36

I like the look. Yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Matthew Brandt  48:40

No, I mean, congrats. I think this is great! I'm excited.

Jennifer Yoffy  48:42

Thank you, thank you.

Matthew Brandt  48:43

No, thank you for all this stuff. And you're so cool. And like you're...

Jennifer Yoffy  48:47

YOU'RE so cool.

Matthew Brandt  48:48

We've been working together for a long time.

Jennifer Yoffy  48:49

I know!

Matthew Brandt  48:51

Yeah!

Jennifer Yoffy  48:54

Thank you for listening to the Perfect Bound podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. And I hope you will tune in next time. We release new episodes every two weeks on Thursday. And you can listen to past episodes on the Yoffy Press website www.YoffyPress.com/podcast or on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else where you regularly listen to these types of programs. Thank you again, and we will see you next time.

Matthew Brandt  49:25

I'm doing good. We just did like a little six month photography session with our baby Lux and a friend of ours, Jodi to take photos. It's kind of funny to have like these traditional, like photos. You know what I mean? Like it's in our backyard and stuff. It's like I feel like it's like a genre of photography that I'm like, taking part in. I'm smiley, I feel like it was like prom photos almost, you know, or like I want to like make fun of the whole thing but it's like oh no, no, act normal, smile. Yeah, yeah. Which is cool because actually I have some baby photos that I bought from the, from the you know that like when you, I don't know if you had this but the photographer comes after you're traumatized having a baby like a couple hours later, and like, Oh, you want me to take photos of you and your baby and it's like, umm? No, but oh, you know, I'm like, it could be interesting, you know what I mean? I want to print them with um... I've been doing these pictures with with my puppies at least like printing them with your dog shit. So I kind of want to do some with

Jennifer Yoffy  51:20

You're like, are you going to be dunking these photos in polluted water after? Right? I was totally, I had on my list of questions like what like babies produce a lot of things, you know, ingredient like spit up and poop.

Matthew Brandt  52:11

There's a lot of spit up to work with. We really love like early baby poop. She's starting to eat solids now.

Jennifer Yoffy  52:19

Oh yeah, now it's just like shit.

Matthew Brandt  52:21

Yeah, in the beginning, it's like, doesn't really smell that bad. It looks like a pumpkin soup. You know? Kind of, like not revolting about it, you know? And then now it's starting to get a little Oh, yeah, it's not cute anymore.

Jennifer Yoffy  52:35

(laughs) No, its like a person. Yes.

Matthew Brandt  52:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah!